for more now, let's bring in defense attorney david wahl and esther pennich. physical attacks we've seen, damaging property, all that kind of stuff. that is nothing compared to what they are looking at right now. david, how serious is this? what about these federal charges? >> they're very serious. each one is facing up to 50 year in federal prison. they must have the goods on them, documentary evidence proving they phonied up tax returns and documents to get home loans. the federal charges are serious. if you get time you do about 85% of the time you get. this is the type of case where you've got to argue, because the facts are on your side, argue from an emotional standpoint, monetary standpoint. they have tremendous earning power, apparently. you want to have the taxes paid, as a federal government, the restitution paid. they have four young kids as well. you don't want the kids going into foster care, you don't want the kids being without a mother and father. you may have to argue this case from an emotional standpoint. they're not going to get a long time